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ANDOVER PLANNING COMMISSION

SUBDIVISION COMMITTEE

June 8, 2004

Minutes

 

The Andover City Subdivision Committee met for a regular meeting on Tuesday, June 8, 2004 at 909 N. Andover Road in the Andover Civic Center.  Chairman Lynn Heath called the meeting to order at 5:30 p.m. Other members present were Clark Nelson, Ron Roberts, and Jan Cox. Others in attendance were Zoning Administrator Les Mangus, Administrative Secretary Deborah Carroll, and City Clerk/Administrator Jeff Bridges. 

Call to Order

 

 

 

Review the minutes of the May 11, 2004 Subdivision Committee meeting.

 

Clark Nelson made a motion to approve the minutes as prepared. Jan Cox seconded the motion. Ron Roberts abstained from voting. Motion carried 3/0/1.

Review the minutes of the May 11, 2004 Subdivision Committee meeting.

 

 

Communications:

Review the City Council minutes from the May 11, 2004 and May 25, 2004 meetings. The minutes were received and filed.

 

Review the minutes of the May 18, 2004 Planning Commission meeting. The minutes were received and filed.

 

Review the minutes of the May 4, 2004 Site Plan Review Committee Meeting. The minutes were received and filed.

 

Review the Potential Residential Development Lot Report.

Communications:

 

 

Ron Roberts asked about the status of the motel at US-54 and Andover Road. Les said it is on hold due to funding issues.

 

 

 

Review the Final Plat of the Valsong Addition.  Ron Smith, owner, and Kirk Miller from K.E. Miller Engineering and agent for Mr. Smith presented the plan.

 

Les said corrections have been made as suggested and they have submitted the drainage plan tonight but he has not had time to review it.

 

Les said a letter was received from Westar Energy and they did not request additional easements. SBC, however, is asking for easements throughout the entire addition. Kirk Miller said he is working with them to resolve this issue.

 

Lynn Heath asked if the proposed driveway would accommodate emergency vehicle traffic. Kirk said that it would be an all weather surface. Ron said a 20' all weather surface road will be built if required.

 

Clark Nelson asked about access from these lots onto Harry. Les said there is no access control, which allows the owners to have access at any point.

 

There was general discussion about restricting access to Harry.

 

Clark Nelson made a motion to recommend approval to the Planning Commission for the Final Plat of the Valsong Addition subject to the satisfaction of staff comments. Ron Roberts seconded the motion.  Motion carried 4/0.

Review the Final Plat of the Valsong Addition.

 

 

Review the Amended Crescent Lakes PUD. Bob Whittaker, owner, and Kenny Hill of Poe & Associates representing the owner presented the amended PUD.

 

Kenny Hill explained this amendment is for an additional 80 acres to the east of the approved Preliminary PUD of Crescent Lakes. One of the changes is to add a reserve for a swimming pool. Another pool has been added to this plan that was not in the original PUD. They are proposing the extension of a street from the existing area to serve the 80-acre tract that has been added to the PUD. There have been some minor changes made to the configuration of some of the lots. The existing pond will be enlarged and another pond will be added for drainage purposes. There are 150 single-family lots proposed. There are only 138 shown on this plat which leaves some flexibility for the developer. They will maintain a net lot area of over 12,000 square foot average. Kenny said this is net area and does not include the reserve area or streets.

 

Kenny said more sidewalks were proposed for this plan to connect the 2 parks. The proposal is for a looped sidewalk system that runs from Andover Road through this addition down to Central. There is an existing sidewalk along Central and another on 13th. There is a proposed 8' wide bike path that would come through this addition and connect through an open area behind the lots, behind the houses. The 5' sidewalk is already built on a portion of Woodstone Drive that was approved in the 1st & 3rd Phases. Kenny proposed building the remainder of the sidewalk on Woodstone 5' to match.

 

There was general discussion about the flood plain property to the north of this area and is currently undeveloped land.

 

Les said this sidewalk discussion is important due to the amendment to the Comprehensive Development Plan. In the Park and Open Space Master Plan the City will designate greenways that connect. In the greenways it is suggested there be an 8' or 10' sidewalk to accommodate pedestrians to stay in continuous greenway instead of having to go out to the streets edge.

 

Les said the 80 acres to the north is about 60% flood plain. Kenny Hill said this would be a good place to put a walkway. Les said that staff suggested the developer apply the new policy to move the proposed sidewalk from collector into the lake reserve.

 

Clark Nelson asked about the new policy. Les said that we would use greenways to connect into the park. Bob Whittaker said when he heard about the new sidewalk policy, which urges developers to build the sidewalks in the rear of the lots. Bob said this would seriously devalue some of the most prime lots that will be offered in Andover. After a discussion with Les and Jeff Bridges, Bob challenged Kenny Hill to come up with an acceptable compromise. The proposal now is in exchange for the sidewalks not being in the rear of the lots of the existing Phase 4, they will provide over 4,200 feet of sidewalk within the greenways in the new property.

 

Clark Nelson asked if Les had any other problems with this plat other than the sidewalk placement. Les said that is the only issue.

 

Kenny Hill said he has not had time to prepare the drainage plan yet.

 

Les said that Bob Whittaker has set the standard for the other developments on providing recreation facilities. He was the first to put a homeowner association owned pool and now is proposing to build 2 more in the existing area. The possibility remains for a major clubhouse in the new area. Bob wants this to be the premier development in Andover. Bob said the density is 2.1 and 1.86 gross in the proposed additional area.

 

Clark Nelson said he appreciates the new policy and understands the value of land, but he feels this offer of additional sidewalk is fair and reasonable and he supports the proposition.

 

There was general discussion about existing sidewalks in this development.

 

Ron Roberts said since there is only a small area of 5' sidewalk already built, he wants all additional sidewalks to be 8' wide to comply with the updated Comprehensive Development Plan. Les said the plan calls for at least an 8' sidewalk at Andover Road, and preferably 10' for a major bike route. Ron Roberts said the developer effort is commendable, but he would rather see the sidewalk specs comply with the Comp Plan.

 

Kenny Hill said he does not like driveways going over 8' sidewalks because it makes the driveway grade too steep. He stated that in some other areas he has platted a wider right-of-way to offset the street to get the sidewalk back farther so the driveway is not so steep.

 

Ron Roberts said that just because the first phase is built to the old standards, does not mean the new construction should be.

 

Jeff Bridges said that as streets throughout the city are rehabilitated, the sidewalks will be removed and be replaced at the homeowners expense through specials and/ or sales tax.

 

Les said that during the course of Crescent Lakes, policy on sidewalks has changed 3 times. The final change is to provide connective greenways in lieu of a sidewalk in the front yard. 

 

Clark Nelson said he felt it is unfair to have a developer "catch-up" everytime the policy changes.

 

Les Mangus stated that in the 2nd Phase of Crescent Lakes, the lots actually have water that encroaches into the back yard so there are no "shores" that are publicly available. Some of the rear lot pins are 15' out into the water.

 

Kenny Hill asked if the homeowners maintain the area behind the houses. Les that said yes they do.

 

Les said these lots probably are not deep enough to accommodate an 8' sidewalk.

 

There was general discussion about the sidewalks in Quail Crossing. Bob said they are seldom used but when he was walking along them, he encountered quite a number of barking dogs.

 

Jeff Bridges asked the committee members if they were more concerned with potential income off of lot sales than adherence with community goals set for the city.  Clark Nelson said he did not see it that way.

 

Les said this is an amendment to the existing plan that adds 80 acres. The only thing he sees, as a point of contention was whether the 8' sidewalk is in front of the houses or in the rear of the lots in the greenspace.

 

Jeff suggested off setting the road to provide the initial right-of-way on the north side to accommodate the wider 8' sidewalks. He said this has been done before and it gives one side of the street more right-of-way in the front yard than the other side.

 

Kenny Hill said that all the utilities would be run in the front easements of the lots already. He said that from an engineering standpoint, Jeff's plan makes it very difficult to fit everything in.

 

Kenny Hill asked about the City of Andover receiving a grant for sidewalks. Jeff said this is only for major arterial streets and that there are already priorities ahead of this project.

 

Clark Nelson asked Bob Whittaker what the detrimental impact would be if the sidewalk were kept in the rear of the lots. Les said this issue has been overcome in other areas.

 

Clark Nelson made a motion to approve the Amended Crescent Lakes PUD as presented with sidewalks East of Woodstone Drive and lot configuration as shown on this plat, and to maintain the 5' sidewalk throughout the original PUD, changing to 8' in width for the sidewalk in the additional 80 acres subject to staff comments. Lynn Heath seconded the motion.

 

Jeff asked if Woodstone is a collector street. Les said that Woodstone is the collector street and Crescent Lakes Drive is a collector street, and Weston is the north-south collector, which will extend through the industrial park.

 

Clark asked for the definition of a collector street. Jeff said it collects the traffic from the neighborhood, which leads to an arterial street. Jeff said that if 5' sidewalk is built, it will not comply with city design regulations.

 

Kenny Hill stated that in the original PUD there was a statement that the sidewalks would either be on the collector street or as approved by the city. Kenny said they are asking for a change of policy.

 

Clark Nelson said that the literal interpretation does not always work. Les said that from Woodstone going east, the sidewalk should be 8' wide.

 

Jeff said that the proposal is to build 8' sidewalks that don't connect to anything. Jeff wants to avoid compounding the problem for the future by approving something that is not acceptable. He said this would be a waste of the homeowner's specials to build a 5' sidewalk when as the road needs rehabilitation, the sidewalk will be replaced at 8' wide at the city at large expense.

 

Les Mangus said that collector streets are at or about the half-mile mark. Bob said if he follows policy to the letter, only 1/3 of the offered sidewalk will be built. Bob said usage, value, and functionality are more important.

 

Motion died 2/2 with Ron Roberts and Jan Cox voting no.

 

Ron Roberts left the meeting at 6:20 p.m.  Jeff Bridges left the meeting at 6:35 p.m. 

 

Discussion continued about the sidewalks.

 

Sheri Rickard, on site real estate agent for Crescent Lakes,  asked how many committee members would purchase property with an 8' sidewalk in the rear of the lot.

 

Clark Nelson asked Sheri how the rear of the lot would be separated from the sidewalk. She said whatever was done would be expensive. Les said the real estate markets highest demand is for lots that back up to golf courses that may have 60-70,000 people per year using them.

 

Sheri said potential buyers are concerned about their personal liability should someone be injured in the rear of their property next to the lake.

 

Clark Nelson wants each case to be decided independently.

 

Jeff said the goal is for connectivity and that the Amended Crescent Lakes PUD today does not provide it.

 

Clark asked what the detriment would be to build an 8' sidewalk in the front of the lots.  Kenny said it makes the driveway grade too steep. Jeff said to shift the right-of-way over.

 

Sheri said she has 17 lots reserved based upon this current lot and sidewalk configuration. She feels it would be a detriment to her if the design were changed at this point.

 

Lynn Heath said that he would like to have a briefing explaining city policy for greenspace and collector streets.  Les said the policy would become unclear with the change.  He said it would say "In lieu of being on the collector street, you have connectivity that matches up to points that are identified on the plan". Les said he wants the entire sidewalk running to the new phase to be 8' wide.

 

There was discussion about the amendment of this PUD. Les said if this was a stand alone PUD it would get into the financing line. The financing policy states that existing developments next phase come ahead of new developments first phase.

Review the Amended Crescent Lakes PUD.

 

 

Member Items: Clark Nelson said that committee members need to become more educated about the issues.

 

Jan Cox was concerned there are no lot dimensions on this plat. Les said that measurements are not necessary on a Preliminary Plat. Les said what to rely on is the parcel descriptions, number of lots, minimum frontage size, average size of lot, and etc.

 

Lynn Heath stated the easiest time to request requirements is on the Preliminary Plan. Les said the Final Plats have more engineering costs expended and are less flexible.

 

Les believes that Kenny will find a way to provide the 8' sidewalks as requested. Les said that the utility easement in the rear of the lots couldn't be used because it is underwater. There is a 15' - 20' discrepancy between the preliminary plat and the actual water line.

 

Lynn Heath said he is planning to resign from the Subdivision Committee and will suggest Charlotte Bass be his replacement.

Member Items

 

 

Clark Nelson made a motion to adjourn the meeting at 6:52 p.m. Jan Cox seconded the motion. Motion carried 3/0.

Adjournment

 

 

 

Respectfully Submitted by

 

 

__________________________

Deborah Carroll

Administrative Secretary

 

Approved this 10th day of August 2004 by the Subdivision Committee, City of Andover.